Rocco Russo, national trainer from Fluidra (Jandy, Polaris, Zodiac, etc.) to talk about the creation of the new Watershape University course, Service 1311: Essential Pool Equipment - The Core Four.
[00:00] - Intro
[01:12] - Introducing Rocco Russo
[06:15] - AI Displacement vs. Tribal Knowledge
[08:49] - 2025 Trainer of the Year
[20:50] - What to expect from S1311: Essential Pool Equipment - The Core Four
[33:44] - Closing
176. Essential Pool Equipment, Taught by the Masters (w/ Rocco Russo)
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Eric Knight: Back everybody to the New Rule Your Pool podcast episode 176, and today I have another guest who is going to be one of the instructors at the Education Vacation in Phoenix. I have told you for the past several episodes That's who we're interviewing here for the for the time being, just to let you know a little bit of taste of what is to come at our first ever Education Vacation. And I'm very excited to have this guest with us. Never had him on the show. I've only been to one of your classes, but I remember it distinctly. It was in Charlotte, and it was great. And you were the technical guy, no sales pitch at all, it was just technical information. Super engaging. Today's guest Rocco Russo from Jandy and now Fluidra. Rocco Thanks for joining the show.
Rocco Russo: Thank You so much for having me, Eric. It's great to be here.
Eric Knight: Yeah you had a little rasp in your voice. It sounds like you've been talking a lot lately.
Rocco Russo: Yeah, you'll have to forgive me. I'm eating Halls like crazy here. Um, on eight weeks in a row of training. This is, as you know, the heart of our season. This is our time to get out in front of dealers and builders and service technicians. While they're slowing down, we're gearing up and hopefully getting them the information they need to succeed.
Eric Knight: Oh buddy I know it I used to live that world So let's get into this episode 176.
[00:01:12] Introducing Rocco Russo
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Eric Knight: So Rocco it is a pleasure to have you on the show. I know I have seen you teach I believe it was an electrical class if I remember right. And I've been teaching water chemistry for all these years but I learned a lot in that electrical class. The main thing is I'm never going to wire a panel without more training, because you made it very clear you could get shocked if you do this wrong and and all that stuff. But let's hear a little bit about your background and then why are you on this show? What are we talking about here that we've been working on together for the past two or three months now?
Rocco Russo: Well, a little bit about my background. I started as an apprentice. I was helping a mechanic carry his tools and fix equipment when I was 20 years old, back in 1993. Um, so do the math. You could figure out how old I am, but, uh.
Eric Knight: Young Spring chicken
Rocco Russo: Hah, yeah, in this industry maybe a little bit. But, um, came up through the ranks, worked my way up to a technician, and eventually was service manager for a large pool construction company. I managed the heating and technical side of the business. Uh, anything the pool cleaners couldn't fix came to my department. And I did that for a great, number of years. Came to the manufacturer side as a territory service manager and helped customers learn about new products, learn about troubleshooting. Provide troubleshooting guides and, and things of that nature to our client base. So I've got a long history of having hands on with equipment. And when you approached me about Core Four, I thought it was a great opportunity to hopefully convey some of the things that I've learned so that people can avoid some of the pitfalls in learning that you typically come across. Because like you said, it could be dangerous dealing with some of the stuff we deal with. I think the two best trainers in the world are Ouch, that hurts, and damn that's going to cost money. But if we could use
Eric Knight: I was wondering who where you're going to go with that. Okay All right.
Rocco Russo: If we could use some of what we've experienced with our hands to help people avoid those two pitfalls, slash trainers, then we can, uh, you know, get over those obstacles and through those hurdles without the pain and the loss of money, then uh, we'll be doing a great service for the young men and women in the industry that are out there trying to make it happen. So.
Eric Knight: And there are some people that lose a lot more than just money. They can lose their business if they do something wrong they can get sued. It can be very dangerous and and not so much with pool equipment but uh I know that like there have been incidents where filters fail because they didn't clear the air out of them, and they didn't read the instructions, and things happen. But most of the injuries that I've heard of at least, and this is on the, you know, the Orenda side of me just hearing from people, are electrocutions. And they're really working with panels at that level. And so it's super important to understand this. And I always tell the pros that I talk to have some pride in your work, because this is not an easy trade.
And it bothers me, and the main reason I went to Wateshape was it bothers me that we are not seen on the same level playing field as electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs, welders and these other predominant trades. But we should be because it's a hard trade. We have to have electrical experience, plumbing experience, mechanical experience, repair experience. And of course chemistry and customer service. That's hard. There's not a lot of trades that have to do that breadth of understanding. And you train all of these disciplines, is that right?
Rocco Russo: Yeah, don't forget, uh, we're now going to ask pool service technicians to be IT professionals as well.
Eric Knight: Oh my gosh yeah that's right
Rocco Russo: with phone-based and web-based automation, uh, with our iAqualink app. And don't forget, pool service techs and builders, you're also therapists to your customers in a lot of ways, sometimes too. Uh, so yeah,
Eric Knight: You are firefighters You're putting out fires all the time Yeah.
Rocco Russo: Yeah
You're, you're, you're doing all kinds of things. So yeah, we are expected to know a little bit about a lot of things. And you're right, the pool industry technician deserves a lot more credit and deserves to be held in that high regard. I look at the pool industry and it's a kind of a funny analogy, but you remember the old eighties movies where, you know, at the end of the movie, the girl takes off her glasses and you realize, oh my God, she's been beautiful this whole time? That's the pool industry.
Eric Knight: Yeah
Rocco Russo: right? Everybody's always looked at it like it's that nerdy thing that, you know, whatever. Now all of a sudden, you know, we're the sexy industry. We're the industry that everybody wants to be in. Our projections look like this. You know, over the, through COVID when every other industry was suffering, we were thriving. Everybody wants, uh, to get in on it now, and people are jumping into our industry left and right. So it's great to be a part of.
[00:06:15] AI Displacement vs. Tribal Knowledge
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Eric Knight: Yeah it is. And and by the same token it's hard to hire good people if you're a service company or a construction company. It's hard to keep them, because I think one of the main things that we have a problem with is showing people a path. Showing them a future that there is a prosperous living to be had in this industry. And there is meaningful work to be done. For sure. And you got to work for it of course, but I think with I've been saying this a lot lately the AI revolution that has already started is displacing a lot of knowledge workers that are going to have to start working with their hands. Because a lot of these entire skillsets are going away in the next 10 years. Probably in the next two years. And I'm already starting to see customers coming to us, new students, that came from software development and marketing firms and uh you know insert really highly educated technical kind of work. Well they come here and they say wow I could do this. And they're hungry to learn, they're smart, they're well educated, and they want to learn this trade. And some of them are already killing it out of the gate.
Because they don't have the same perceptions as, I actually just heard this at an event from skimmer that said it's tribal knowledge. That's how most people learn in this industry. It's well, you know, ride in the truck for a few weeks and and follow along what they do and that's how you do the job. Okay that's great if they learned it right. If they are doing the best practices. But if yeah and and where do they learn it? And so unfortunately so many people that I've come across they're still column pouring acid, They're still hot starting pools for startups. They're still doing things the old way. Trichlor in the skimmer basket. What does trichlor do to a heat exchanger Rocco?
Rocco Russo: Destroys it quickly.
Eric Knight: Absolutely. And it's not just that. There's all sorts of other things that we see that was just tribal knowledge. Well we've always done it this way. And part of the reason that I invited you to be part of this is when I took that class with you there was no nonsense in that class. You were very serious about the risks involved with doing any sort of mechanical work and it that goes beyond pool equipment. That's like working on anything mechanical. HVAC included, motors, it doesn't matter. You have to be focused on what you're doing. You have to learn the skill. You have to practice that skill. One of the things that I've been thinking about lately is I'm not sure we should call these pool service companies. They should be called pool service practices. Just like law firms and doctors. We're practicing all the time, and I think that mindset shift is going to be something positive. What do you think about that?
[00:08:49] 2025 Trainer of the Year
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Rocco Russo: I couldn't agree more. And going back to what you said, yeah, it is very difficult for companies in any industry to find talented, qualified help these days. So it's up to us to cultivate those people that show a little bit of promise. And those people, hopefully they understand, if you're staying up all night hitting the vape pen and playing video games, you can't show up to work ready to work on a gas-fired heater. It's potentially dangerous. It's going to remind you of that potential hazard. It's going to hurt. Um, so yeah, I, I think it's a hundred percent accurate in saying that we need to have a more serious perspective on what it is that we're doing on a regular basis. We're getting new people cycled through this industry all the time.
The people with the tribal knowledge are retiring out. We're going to have a vacuum of talent here and we need professionals to fill it. And, you know, that's, that's, that's part of what drives me, to be honest, Eric. And you know, when I, when I first started as a trainer, you know, the mission was deliver the content.
Here's what, you know, the corporation wants you to deliver. And then over time I start to realize, I need to do a lot more than that. I need to deliver confidence more than content. I need people to leave this room with a skillset and a confidence that allows them, that enables them to get out there and provide a better experience for their customers. We're not just here to show you all the cool bells and whistles that our stuff can do. I'm here to show you how to use a multimeter. I'm here to show you how to use a manometer. I'm here to show you how to not get hurt and to provide how to provide quality service, minimize recalls, right? You don't want to be going back and forth to the same job to get paid once. Your billable time and material per day per vehicle. Write more proposals for people that, that need to have better equipment installed to improve their experience. There's so much more to it than just, Hey, here's my product. I hope you like it.
Eric Knight: Absolutely. By the way you just said something that reminded me I think some congratulations are in order. Did I understand you were just elected the trainer of the year?
Rocco Russo: Uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was quite a moment. Uh, it was fantastic. Yeah. Trainer of the Year from the from the Pool Nation. Thank you to everybody that went ahead and, and cast a vote. I was, I was surprised to hear my name. I was nominated in the company with some real heavy hitters in this industry.
Eric Knight: congratulations It's well deserved
Rocco Russo: Thank you. Yeah, that was, uh, that was, that was quite a moment. Uh,
Eric Knight: Well it tells me that
Rocco Russo: Very
Eric Knight: It tells me that not only have you been doing this a long time you have seen so many faces. I mean for me it's in the thousands, and I only started training in 2017 with Orenda. We did private trainings all over the place, we did trade shows and all that. I know it's in the thousands. You've got to be multiples more than that.
Rocco Russo: That kind of award doesn't come from an individual's effort. That's my team. You know, Alex Krajewski and Kevin Poe. I've got great support in my office. David Van Summer and, uh, Creighton. I have a phenomenal team that supports me. When we have ideas on how we're going to bring hands-on training to life, we get to work with engineers that help us design, the carts, the platforms, where the equipment is housed. We put it all together in our minds. We build a prototype and, and, and then we pitch it. Alex and myself started, well we brought training back into the Jandy world. After the economic collapse, the housing collapse in 2007. I was still in the private sector working for a builder. Jandy training didn't exist. But after I had come on board and I worked as a service manager for a while, uh, training was going to come back. And it was Alex and myself, we were asked to recreate a new program and we did that. And we asked ourselves, what would I need if I were a young technician starting off in this industry? And the answer always was hands-on training. Uh, so that's,
Eric Knight: Absolutely
Rocco Russo: we, we, we got the the green light from the powers that be, and we've been just evolving this program year by year. Taking feedback from our attendees. What did you like about it? What didn't you like? What do you want to see more of? What do you want to see little less of? We take the feedback to heart. Feedback is a gift, right? If somebody's nice enough to give us feedback, we're going to take it to heart. We're going to apply it, and we're going to try and get out there and, and give them the best training possible. But yeah, multiple cities over the course of, over a decade. Yeah, there's been quite a few, uh, friendly faces out there.
Eric Knight: I was going to say you've probably trained in more cities than you haven't, if we're talking about major cities with a big major airport, I think you've probably trained over the entire country just like I have.
Rocco Russo: Yeah. If there's a pool market, I've probably been there training, so yeah.
Eric Knight: Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about why we're making this class. We call it the Core Four. Technically it's Service 1311: Essential Pool Equipment- The Core Four. The Core Four, for those of you listening, is an eight hour class. It's the foundation of our new service track that we are unveiling at the Education Vacation in December. There are two foundational classes for that first level which is the service technician the Watershape Service Technician. Those two classes are my eight hour chemistry course, and this eight hour Core Four. The Core Four is roughly two hours each of pumps, filters, heating, and automation. And when I called you Rocco, uh first of all I didn't call any salespeople from any of the manufacturers. I did call all of the companies but I wanted the trainers. For two reasons: Number one, I don't want any sales pitches at all. There's nothing about features and benefits comparing the two, that comes later. I wanted something fair and balanced, completely neutral that everybody from all of you companies agree this is legitimately good neutral information. Every brand is going to be equally represented in this class. And I got to compliment you and everyone else, nobody seemed to have a problem with that. Everyone was stoked. And as far as I know no one's ever asked you to do it this way. Is that still the case?
Rocco Russo: That is 100% the case. Yeah. It, it's a great approach. Get everybody together and, yeah, we may be competitors on the battlefield for customers, but we're partners on the battlefield for promoting the industry. We're, partners on the battlefield for helping all the customers. If I get a customer in my classroom that uses a competitor's equipment, just don't wear their hat and sweatshirt in my classroom. But, but I'm, I still want to help show you how to use your multimeter, right? And there, there
Eric Knight: Yeah
Rocco Russo: that are, you know, that cross over different manufacturers. If you learn an order of operations on a product, you know the order of operations across multiple platforms. So yeah, coming together and working together to provide, you know, the, the clear information that applies to everything. it's a fantastic approach, and again, it reminds us all that we're in the industry together. Promote the industry, let's promote safe, capable technicians. Again, that can solve problems that are confident. There's nothing worse than showing up to repair something and not knowing where to start. Feeling anxiety, feeling frustration. If we could empower those techs to make those repairs, to give them the confidence, then we'll be doing a great thing. So, yeah, I commend you for what you're doing and it's, uh, it's a tall order. Because, you know,
Eric Knight: Yeah
Rocco Russo: these years we're trained to be like, oh yeah, that other manufacturer, they're our enemy. I get that on the battlefield of sales. But when it comes to promoting the industry and helping the people within it, we have to partner up. It's our responsibility.
Eric Knight: Yeah we do, because at the end of the day, if pros leave the industry that's not good for anybody especially homeowners. Because homeowners should not be doing electrical work. They should not be doing plumbing work. I understand DIY homeowners cleaning their own pools and doing chemistry, I get that. But there are some legitimate safety risks that you need to be trained to handle these things. You know I'm fine turning off a breaker in my house and replacing an outlet. I can watch a YouTube video, I could do that. But I have no confidence that I could go into a panel and start doing real electrical work. I'm not trained to do that. I'm going to hire that out. Not only because of the risk but because I don't want to do it wrong. And a lot of homeowners that have swimming pools they'll just, they want to buy back their time. They'd rather have a pro do this kind of work. And that's a very important skill set.
When we first spoke, you're competent in all four of the Core Four disciplines. And in speaking with all the other manufacturers, I was trying to do my best to make sure that we had equal representation in each block. So I know your specialty is mostly heating, but I had a bunch of heating specialists, and so I actually asked you to do pumps and filters. And without hesitation you're like yeah I'm in. So thank you for that. It's going to be a great class.
And by the way this class is going to be filmed in Phoenix. We're almost at capacity. There are limitations to how much we can fit in the building. We're probably going to sell this event out, we're very close to it at this point. We already sold out the room block, doubled it, sold that out too. So it's really encouraging to see this especially since we weren't at the international show.
This is going to be an event that is an alternative to establishment education. Nothing wrong with it, I want it to grow, I think people need more access to education. I want more classes, I want more accessibility. No matter where you get your education. Watershape has a slightly different purpose. We don't exist to teach to the standards. We're not trying to get as many people certified as possible. We are here to help people achieve mastery. We're here to help them unlock their full potential. Yes of course we're going to start with the Core Four, we're going to get those basics. But then we're actually going to have our students come through your trainings. And we're going to require these students to get their certifications to go to your classes and these other manufacturers as well. We want a well-rounded student.
Cause you're not at our disposal I've heard that term, "We have all these trainers at our disposal". If something's at your disposal, that implies that you own it. I don't own you. I don't own your time. We don't own any of our faculty's time. Our faculty comes here because they want to be here. They don't have to train, they don't have to teach their wisdom. They want to uplift the entire industry. So I don't own any of the information in that class although we are working together to create it. The entire purpose is this is fair, balanced, neutral information. Good solid information. And it's going to create the platform that is going to allow a student to get far above the minimum standard. You know as high as they want to go.
We are going to go deep. I've had a lot of feedback from our like major renovations class and fluid engineering class. And students are just like my my brain hurts. You know I didn't know there was. I had a builder come up to me actually uh recently at a fluid engineering class, Rocco you'll get a kick out of this. He said I built my first pool in 1979.
Rocco Russo: Wow.
Eric Knight: I've built over 800 pools. And no one ever told him, cause he's a construction guy so he's not like doing any of the designs or anything, he's the guy who's digging the trenches and shooting the concrete and the rebar and the plumbing and all that stuff. No one ever told him there was math to do for plumbing. They've always just used two inch pipe. And you know why? And he's like it's because it's a two inch fitting on the front of the pump. No one ever told us that it was any different. And he takes our fluid engineering class, He's like oh my God I had no idea. You know my my house here in Charlotte the old one that I had uh we talked a lot on previous episodes before I sold that house. When we dug down and replaced the equipment it was inch and a half flex pipe underground.
Rocco Russo: Wow.
Eric Knight: That was almost a 24,000 gallon pool. Inch and a half flex pipe. Now without a major renovation digging down to replace all that, that pool is limited in its circulation. And so we want those best practices especially for builders but for the people maintaining these pools, you got to be prepared. And you just said hands-on training. Core Four is not meant to be hands-on. The Core Four is meant to be the starting point.
[00:20:50] What to expect from S1311: Essential Pool Equipment - the Core Four
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Eric Knight: So Rocco a little bit about What should students expect in your sections here? Because you're the first half of the day in pumps and filters. What should students expect in the class?
Rocco Russo: What should drive them to it is exactly what you're saying with Watershape. And here's the hope with Core Four is that, hopefully the Core Four develops a genuine curiosity and a genuine interest in pursuing more of this education. But when you come to one of the Fluidra Pro Academy hands-on workshops, you're going to spend a good part of the first day troubleshooting a JXIQ heater. Learning about, uh, how this heater can, you could Bluetooth the heater to your phone, and run a diagnostic cycle. And your phone is going to give you pertinent details on your, your flame rectification signal, your transformer voltages, your safety switches. You're going to get all that information. You're going to get hands-on experience using a multimeter, troubleshooting real world scenarios that you would find in the field. Second day, you're going to be troubleshooting on an AquaPure power interface board. People see a green printed circuit board and they think, oh, that's a computer. That thing is broken.
I'm just going to sell chlorine tablets. I'm not touching that thing. Why be so intimidated? There's nothing engineered on that equipment pad that's beyond the abilities of a technician in this industry that applies himself. That's the message that I really want to get out there. If you're interested and curious about the equipment and you apply yourself, you'll be capable of repairing everything on that equipment pad. Learn how to use your multimeter, come to the classes, and you're going to get to that crackerjack level where you are the guy that the company sends because nobody else could figure it out. And when you have people regarding you in that way, you, you'll have opportunities open up for you.
In this industry. You said it earlier. People aren't aware of how far this industry could take a career. But if you're held in high regard, you'll have opportunities opening up left and right.
Eric Knight: Oh and you sometimes the pros don't even know where to look for the opportunities. I was just at an event in Phoenix two days ago and statistics show that almost 50 of the pools out there are over 20 years old. That's a lot of repair work coming. That's a lot of replacing pumps, that's a lot of replacing heaters in the next five to 10 years. It's I mean we're talking millions of pools here five to 10 million pools.
Rocco Russo: On something before with renovations. And you said it, talking about, you know, safe and smart hydraulics and the way old pools were plumbed. And, and it, it made me think of something. You know, I hear this all the time. Oh, well that worked for decades. Oh, that was fine, you know, inch and a half, uh, flex hose. I don't even think it's considered as pipe. I think it's considered hose and swimming pools are supposed to be built with pipe, so,
Eric Knight: I'm not disagreeing with you. It's it's absolutely terrible. But I I what am I supposed to with it? If I can't afford to cut through the concrete and replace it?
Rocco Russo: Renovate! Start tearing up the deck.
Eric Knight: Yeah
Rocco Russo: So, so when we look at, and I know that some people are like, whoa. When it comes to pool service and what we see nowadays when we're talking about velocity limitations on a suction line, and the fact that you've got a single inch and a half pipe coming up out of the ground at the equipment set, you know, for a 16 by 32, you can't even get a turnover in 10 hours if you follow the velocity guidelines.
So what do you need to do to protect yourself? I recommend that you renovate your swimming pool. You know, it's,
Eric Knight: Yeah
Rocco Russo: and, and I hear it all the time. I teach a hydraulics class with variable speed pumps, and I hear it all the time. Pools were fine with inch and a half plumbing, two skimmers in a single drain. That was the way we did it for decades. And my
Eric Knight: They also had algae every other week in the summertime.
Rocco Russo: And entrapment hazards, and this and that. Uh,
Eric Knight: Right
Rocco Russo: no. We built them that way forever, and we never had a problem. That's the way the industry was for decades. Well, my response to that was, well, when I was born in 1973, the doctor that delivered me was smoking a cigarette at the time. And they did that for decades too. They did that for decades prior. But we don't do that now. Why? Because we've learned that that's not such a great idea. And we've evolved our thinking and we've found new, better ways to do things.
Eric Knight: Amen
Rocco Russo: And you can either get on board and evolve, or you can smoke cigarettes while you're delivering babies.
Eric Knight: I walked into a backyard, Rocco, it reminds me of this. I walked into a backyard and before we got to the equipment, I was with a service He was a service tech. He was not what a manufacturer or anything. He was just a very experienced service repair tech. And I was actually there for a plaster problem. But we get into this backyard and you could hear the pump before you knew where it was. The thing was just screaming, high pitch squeal. And he's like you hear that? That's a hydraulics issue. I said and so when I'm thinking hydraulics, I was pretty new at the time, hydraulics to me, I'm thinking like heavy machinery. Excavators, you know things that push a steel rod. Cause that's to me that's a hydraulic machine. And I said what do you mean by that? He said that pump is screaming. It's hurting. That pump is stressed. The plumbing under the ground is probably wrong or it doesn't fit the pump.
And I didn't really understand what he meant, and I kind of shrugged it off cause that's not my world, you know. And it was by the way a pretty new pool. This was a plaster problem. And the landscape looked great, you know the hardscapes is a beautiful backyard. And yet it's got this high WEEEEE sound behind this hedge row. And he and he said he's like uh I I serve these builders, and they won't listen to me. But they just buy an equipment package because it's stock and they don't even think about how far they're plumbing to it. And it didn't really click to me that experience cause that was pre COVID, it was a long time ago, until I took Dave's fluid engineering class. And then it clicked. I said oh my gosh I now I understand how important it is.
And it takes a little more time. It certainly takes a lot more thought. But it doesn't actually cost that much more money to do it right. Sometimes it doesn't cost more at all, it actually costs the same or less to do it right, because you could be more efficient. So what are some of the things that, because you're the trainer, I'm sure your service techs call you when they don't know how to fix something. I know that's I mean I certainly got called by my reps in the field. What are some of the things that your service techs are calling you about with questions?
Rocco Russo: Yeah I hear that one too. Along those same lines. It's, uh, you know, which pump should I recommend? You know, uh, or I got a service guy that's replacing a competitor's model. Which one of ours should we recommend? I don't want to know about the model that's coming out. I want to know about the plumbing that's there. So that's definitely one of them.
All kinds of questions, you know, and, and, I love a good challenge. If one of my guys, one of my territory service managers are being challenged with a question, it's for real. And when they bring it to me, I'm like, wow, that's, that's a good one. Let me think on that and get back to you. Just just had one the other day. Some mud dobbers got into a gas line manifold. Crept in from the fan side and made a mud nest. Here's a technician, oh, we replaced the gas valve. I'm like, ah, man, gas valves don't really fail. It had to be something else, and it still doesn't work. Oh, yeah. So you probably replaced a good part.
What a bummer. You know? But, uh, yeah, it's, it's the real head scratchers that, that make it to my level, that bubble up to the trainers, not just me throughout my company. Um. It, it's good stuff though. But yeah, I mean, talking hydraulics and that screaming pump, I get that one too. Why is this pump making so much noise?
Well, you have a high head pump on a negative edge that has very little back pressure. So you just the wrong application for that particular product. So, yeah, it's never ending because there's all kinds of new problems that bubble up. There's new people coming in and out of the industry. So it's, uh, it's great to be among some of the industry mainstays, such as yourself and, uh,
Eric Knight: Oh I wouldn't go that far.
Rocco Russo: Pass on some of the knowledge we've, uh, we've gleaned over the years. Wouldn't go that far?
You were in my class well over a decade ago. What are you talking about?
Eric Knight: Almost a decade ago I'm not that old, Rocco. Come on now. But in in in all seriousness I think this is the foundation of something really great. Because technology has come a long way since I've been in this industry. Like you said we're expecting pros to be IT professionals now. That is so true. Because automation is coming to another level, which is why it's part of the Core Four.
Now just because we have you as one of the core teachers for the first two which is pumps and filters, you're still in the room for heating and automation and I'm sure there will be questions. And so all of you instructors, I think there are seven or eight of you, uh all from different companies are going to have the ability to be equally represented in this class. And we're going to be filming it. It will be online.
And again where you get the hands-on component, for people listening to this, you could take this class online and then you'll be expected to go to Rocco's class in person. You'll get to meet him in person and all this stuff cause you travel the country. You'll get your hands on component there. You'll get it through each of the manufacturers because we want a well-rounded pro. And that's not the purpose of the core four The core four is let's familiarize yourself with these things.
Um one big question here that we get from customers a lot is, when I because most of Watershape is builders by the way builders and designers. They always ask for like well what's the best? What's the best thing there? And the answer that I've come to get is whatever is sized most appropriately for what the application is. So it's not about a brand it's about sizing. Cause you have I mean you could basically size a pump for just about anything. Size a filter for just about anything. It's about sizing it appropriately for the flow rate and all of that stuff, making sure the automation is made for that pool. As opposed to just putting in a stock item and hoping that it works. Would you agree with that or are there clear differences in uh styles for instance not between brands but is there clear differences that there's you should always pick this type of filter for every single pool cause it's clearly the best?
Rocco Russo: I kind of agree with what you're saying. If it's sized and designed properly, uh, you're going to choose something that is functional, and serviceable, and hopefully easiest for the homeowner to operate. For instance, you're saying filters, you know, and, and when you look at filters, if you're talking about top mount sand filters, you know, they're maxing out at very low flow rates. Top mount sand filter should be used for a very small pool because you can't really push more than 64 65 GPM through them.
Side mount sand filters could go as high as 120, cartridges as well. Uh, so application wise, if everything is sized properly, designed properly, what you're going to use should function the way it's designed to. With an ease of use for the homeowner. And you mentioned this earlier, I think every homeowner that owns a swimming pool should have swimming pool service. I don't think homeowners should be doing any of this themselves. Some of the chemicals can be dangerous, uh, let a professional do it. But, uh, one of the things that I try to people is that, you know, back to pumps, pumps are designed to discharge water and push water out. Our plumbing system should be designed to deliver that water to the pump. Pumps aren't designed to pull water in, otherwise we'd call it a filter sock. We don't call it a filter sock. We call it a filter pump. The suction side plumbing should be designed in such a way that it delivers water easy to the pump. Flooded suction, let gravity do the work. Flooded suction, of course, put the pump below the water level of the the skimmers.
Eric Knight: If you can.
Rocco Russo: When
Eric Knight: do that
Rocco Russo: When possible, yeah. But that's going to make that pump operate so much more efficiently. It's going to turn the electric meter slower. Right? You're going to draw less amperage. And you're going to design that in that way so that you've got home runs on your skimmers. Home runs on your drains, oversized suction, plumbing with one size smaller on the discharge. What does that do? That changes the velocity. Doesn't change the flow rate on either side of the pump or the pad, but it changes the velocity. You're going to get higher velocity and better turnover at the swimming pool if you have that smaller size on the discharge. So if you're designing it properly and sizing it properly. You can use whatever best fits the scenario that you're in. I wouldn't say it's a one size fits all. This one is better than that one. You know, some homeowners, yeah, they love the clarity that they get with a DE filter, but they don't have a means of disposing spent DE properly, or they don't have a dry well for backwash and they live in wetlands. You know, so there, there's, know, all kinds of things that have to be taken in consideration when you're considering what's best for which application.
[00:33:44] Closing
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Eric Knight: Yeah. And that I would imagine some of what you just mentioned will be discussed in the filter section in the Core Four, but maybe not all of it. But we hope to see you in Phoenix. We are, well, of course we'll see you Rocco in Phoenix. Um, we are almost at capacity in the Core Four, which is great, but it will be filmed.
So the way we look at it's, it's the first time that all these people are going to be together in the same room teaching together. And, um, get getting back to what I was saying before. Watershape University's focus is not to teach to the minimum standard. Watershape University's focus is to help people get way above the standard and separate themselves. So we don't have this massive course catalog of all generic stuff. That's not our purpose.
Like the book Good to Great from Jim Collins. We are trying to find our hedgehog place. Focus on one main thing is focusing on helping people who have some base knowledge already get really good. I'll give you an example of this. I was a competitive swimmer. I am not a very good learn to swim instructor. I, you know, we're about to have a baby. I don't think I'm the one to teach that baby how to swim. That's not a skillset that I possess. But I can take a swimmer who's decent or even very good and make them much better.
Rocco Russo: You make them great.
Eric Knight: That's my skillset. So when I was giving swim lessons, you've got to be at least seven years old, and you have to be able to swim all four strokes, minimum. I could work with that. Anything under that. If it's like the rudimentary stuff, that's not me. That's not what I'm about. I'm not, um, kindergarten level. I'm not elementary school level. Chemistry, for instance, I can do basic. I just don't like teaching basic chemistry. That's why we do essential chemistry. You have to have some knowledge of what you're talking about. We will cover a little bit of basic, but we go deep. That's what Watershape does.
This class is the start of that. It is not going to happen in eight hours. To learn what Rocco is going to teach you, it's going to take way more than eight hours. But think of it this way, listeners. You can either spend years and years trying to figure it out and you might figure it out the hard way, but you might never figure it out. You might be doing things wrong for years and years and struggle to get by, but certainly struggle to get ahead. We want to unlock your potential for you, but you have to invest in yourself. It is never an expense when you are investing in your unique ability, in your ability to make your livelihood better.
This is how you make a living. You should probably be paying attention to how to get better at it. It's kind of like, Rocco, you don't see a lot of pros out there using retail grade pool poles, do you?
Rocco Russo: No, of course you wouldn't.
Eric Knight: Pros aren't using that, because they're not using it once a week for 20 minutes. They're using it on every stop. So they have these really nice carbon fiber poles that are hundreds of dollars. Tools matter. You know, uh, I think of it like carpenters. We've got some contractors at our house right now. They're not using basic level retail drills and things like that because I might use a drill at my house if you added up the time, maybe 20 to 30 minutes of trigger time a year.
These people are using it five, six hours a day. There is no comparison there. So tools and knowledge, you've got to get sharp and stay sharp if you're going to stay in this industry and not get displaced by these knowledge workers who are getting displaced in their trades. And they are coming here. Not just to the pool industry, they're coming to the others,
Rocco Russo: They're
Eric Knight: hungry,
Rocco Russo: Yeah.
Eric Knight: they're already coming.
Rocco Russo: Yeah.
Eric Knight: And I've met a lot of 'em and they are absolutely killing it because they are hungry to learn. So. That's why we're here. And Rocco, it is an honor to have you on this show. Hopefully we'll have you again. I will see you in Phoenix. Is there anything else that you want to add?
Rocco Russo: I just wanted to reiterate something that you just touched on. Somebody could try to teach themselves how to play guitar or maybe piano. They could spend three months just hacking away at it. You could sit next to a professional for one hour and learn more than you did on your own in three months. So yeah, get out there. Uh, and, and I love also what you said about, you know what your skill sets are. You know where your limitations are. That reminds me of a Ben Franklin quote. "There are three things in the world that are extremely hard, steel, a diamond, and to know oneself." Uh, if you know your capabilities, you know where you need to go to improve on the things that interest you.
So, uh, I love that you're, uh, you're ahead of this endeavor. I think you're the right guy for it, and uh, I'm just proud to be a part of it. And, uh, hope I can, um, meet your expectations with what you need from me, Eric, because yeah, this is a great thing that you're doing.
Eric Knight: Thank you so much, and I don't think we're going to have any problem meeting my expectations because as I said to you and the other instructors, you guys are masters at this. This is what you do professionally. All we're doing is bringing you together to teach it in a brand neutral way. So I actually have no worries at all, that it's going to be an incredible class for the students.
And again, it's going to be filmed. It's very hard to get all of you together. I don't see that happening at other shows. 'cause you have other, you know, so this is really like our chance to get this together. It's a very special thing. So if you want to see this live and meet these trainers like Rocco in person, it's December 6th in Phoenix.
We have sold out the hotel. It's going to be at the Embassy Suites. You can visit our website, Watershape.org/events. Scroll down, you'll find the Education Vacation, sign up for the class there. It's called the Core four S1311 Essential Pool Equipment. Rocco Russo from Fluidra, Thank you so much for being on the Rule Your Pool Podcast.
Rocco Russo: Thanks for having me, Eric, man. I look forward to seeing you talking with you some more in the future.
Eric Knight: Absolutely, this has been episode 176 and we'll have a few more before we get to Phoenix. So thanks everybody. Take care.